Ready to begin or deepen your meditation practice? Join Dan Harris and world-class meditation teachers on the 10% with Dan Harris app here: https://app.danharris.com/membership --- Most of us never get close to our edge. We hit a hard moment — a difficult conversation, a high-stakes presentation, a spiral of anxiety — and we back off. And every time we do, we quietly reinforce the idea that we can't handle it. High performance psychologist Dr. Michael Gervais has spent his career helping elite athletes and executives do the opposite: train right at the edge of their capacity, recover intelligently, and go back for more. In this conversation with Dan Harris — who still struggles with panic disorder on planes and elevators despite 15 years of meditation — they get into exactly what that looks like in practice, including a dead-simple self-talk technique you can use the next time anxiety spikes. Dr. Michael Gervais is a high performance psychologist who works with elite athletes, executives, and world-class performers. He is the host of the Finding Mastery podcast and one of the leading thinkers on the psychology of performance. In this conversation, Dan and Michael explore: - Why self-talk (not just mindfulness) is often the most powerful tool for managing anxiety in the moment - The science-backed "third person" self-talk technique that actually quiets the nervous system - What "working at your edge" really means — and how most people miss the recovery piece that makes growth possible - The difference between managing fear and extinguishing it, and why both goals are worth holding - How to stay engaged in turbulent political times from a place of values rather than rage - Why Dan believes love — broadly understood — is the most important skill any of us can develop - The "Ideal Competitive Mindset" (ICM) framework, and why elite athletes have a morning ritual most of us never use - What micro-interactions have to do with happiness (and Dan's next book) Dan also shares the full story of his ongoing work with panic disorder on planes and elevators, why the counterfactual of not finding mindfulness is something he thinks about a lot, and why he now sees love — not self-improvement — as the center of his practice. --- Subscribe to watch more 10% Happier videos: https://www.youtube.com/tenpercenthappier Follow Dan Harris on Social Media: https://www.instagram.com/danharris/ https://www.tiktok.com/@danbharris https://www.facebook.com/DanHarrisABC https://twitter.com/danbharris https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-harris-91ba5716b/ --- Timestamps: 0:00:00 Introduction and overview 0:01:00 Dan's background: panic attack on GMA and finding meditation 0:10:30 Dan's very first meditation experience 0:15:00 Self-talk and self-compassion as tools for anxiety 0:22:00 Curiosity as a strength — and why Dan isn't a therapist 0:29:00 Working at your edge: acute stress + intelligent recovery 0:38:00 The counterfactual: what if Dan had never found mindfulness? 0:43:00 Conflict entrepreneurship and the search for reasonable voices 0:56:00 Healthy conflict vs. toxic conflict — and civic hygiene 1:01:00 Michael's four-step morning mindset routine 1:08:00 From "me" to "we" — what the self-help industry gets wrong --- #anxiety #mentalhealth #mindfulness #psychology #meditation