Is net zero 2030 impossible to achieve - and is it a mistake to pursue it? Should governments be more brutal with climate investment? Are events like COP a waste of time? Rory and Alastair are joined by Britain’s leading energy economist, Professor Dieter Helm, to answer all these questions and more. 00:00 Intro 02:33 Are you an optimist or pessimist about climate change? 09:03 The UK is ahead on climate change but then 80% of our energy comes from carbon 17:33 Why have costs fallen on solar and what does that mean for the next step? 20:24 Remind us why we need to meet Net Zero 23:41 How are you placed politically? 27:45 Can we reduce the gap between optimism and pessimism on climate change? 48:04 Who is to blame - Labour or Conservative? 53:06 What is the climate change solution? 1:06:33 What should the next government not do? 1:08:45 Outro 1:09:50 Debrief