What if the rise of Apple also built modern China? a16z’s Erik Torenberg is joined by board partner and former Microsoft Windows chief Steven Sinofsky to unpack how Apple’s pursuit of design excellence and supply chain scale catalyzed China’s manufacturing superpower status - and why that partnership is now under intense scrutiny. Inspired by the book Apple in China (but not a book review), the episode dives deep into: - The early days of Apple’s shift to Chinese manufacturing - What experts got wrong in 1999 about trade, globalization, and China’s trajectory - How Tim Cook’s operational playbook reshaped the global tech industry - Behind-the-scenes stories from Microsoft’s own hardware battles and -Surface launch - Why Apple’s entanglement with China may now be a strategic liability - What COVID revealed about fragile global dependencies — and where innovation goes next - How national policy, intellectual property, and AI intersect in the new industrial era The episode opens with a few reactions to WWDC: Apple’s new UI, the iPad’s evolving role, and why Apple’s AI story still feels unfinished - before zooming out into one of the most consequential tech and geopolitical stories of our time. Timecodes: 00:00 Introduction 00:32 Reuniting with Steven 01:17 WWDC Highlights: Liquid Glass and iPad Updates 04:11 Apple's AI Strategy and Market Dynamics 05:35 Meta's AI Moves and Market Implications 12:26 Apple's Historical Manufacturing Journey 16:06 The Evolution of Apple's Manufacturing in China 21:22 The Rise of ODMs and the PC Industry 26:31 Inside China's ODM Factories 28:49 The Evolution of the MacBook Air 29:25 The Apple Manufacturing Miracle 30:46 Challenges with Windows PC Makers 31:49 The Rise of Surface and Metallurgy Innovations 32:58 China's Manufacturing Prowess 34:14 The Point of No Return for Apple 35:04 The Complexities of Global Trade 39:48 The Impact of COVID on Global Manufacturing 42:44 Navigating the Future of Manufacturing 51:18 The Role of Intellectual Property in US-China Competition Resources: Find Steven on X: https://x.com/stevesi Find Erik on X: https://x.com/eriktorenberg Stay Updated: Let us know what you think: https://ratethispodcast.com/a16z Find a16z on Twitter: https://twitter.com/a16z Find a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16z Subscribe on your favorite podcast app: https://a16z.simplecast.com/ Follow our host: https://x.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.