Ramit Sethi of I Will Teach You To Be Rich talks to Tania and Mike who are in their 50s, married 21 years, and earning over $225,000 a year. By most measures, they should be fine. But they’ve been trapped in the same debt cycle for two decades. Cashing out 401(k)s, borrowing from family, and digging themselves out only to fall right back in. Again and again. When Ramit opens their Conscious Spending Plan, the numbers are genuinely shocking. Fixed costs at 155%. Savings at 0%. Guilt-free spending at -73%. They are spending more than they make every single month and they have barely one month of savings to show for it. But the money isn’t even the most revealing part of this episode. Ramit works through the psychology behind the cycle, the “dreamer” pattern that keeps pulling them back in, and what it’s actually going to take for them to change together. In this episode we uncover: The shocking CSP breakdown: 155% fixed costs on a $228K income The parent-child dynamic in their marriage and how it formed Why Mike admits he “coaxes” Tania into big purchases including a $23,000 tractor The moment Tania realises she’s been a money transcriptionist, not a money manager Why earning more money has never solved their problem and never will The role of Mike’s upbringing in his total avoidance of money conversations Ramit’s concept of “dreamer thinking” and how it’s kept them stuck for 20 years The follow-up: how things changed after the episode ⏩ CHAPTERS (00:00:00) Introduction (00:07:04) Looking at the numbers: $228K income, 155% fixed costs (00:11:41) "I've never talked about feelings, we've been married 21 years" (00:30:35) The tractor: how every big purchase actually happens (00:43:26) Cashing out retirement AGAIN! (00:47:14) The dreamer pattern: why the next thing never fixes anything (00:53:46) Michael's moment: "I don't know how to talk about money. It scares me." (01:07:56) Ramit walks through their house: where did all the money go? (01:16:07) The alter ego exercise: imagining a different life (01:31:27) Tanya's moment: "I'm the hero. I always say yes." (01:34:05) Ramit draws the caricature (02:01:48) Follow-ups 💡 RAMIT’S PODCAST NEWSLETTER I share new ways to think about money every Saturday. Get the emails here: https://iwt.com/podcastnewsletter 🙌 GET HELP FROM RAMIT SETHI Order my new book: Money for Couples: https://iwt.com/moneyforcouples Take control of your money with the Conscious Spending Plan: https://iwt.com/csp Optimize your credit cards with the 1st chapter of my book: https://iwt.com/chapter1-pod Join my Money Coaching program for monthly help: https://iwt.com/moneycoaching Listen to my book — now on Audible: https://amzn.to/48zko28 🥳 CONNECT WITH RAMIT SETHI Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ramit/ X: https://twitter.com/ramit ✅ SUBSCRIBE SO YOU DON’T MISS ANY EPISODES https://youtube.com/user/ramitsethi/featured/ THIS EPISODE IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY Gusto | Try Gusto at http://gusto.com/ramit and get 3 months free when you run your first payroll Facet | As of the date of this recording, Facet is waiving the enrollment fee for new annual members, and for my audience, Facet is offering $300 into your brokerage account if you invest and maintain $5,000 within your first 90 days. Head to facet.com/ramit to learn more about which membership option is best for you. Offer expires March 31, 2026. #FacetAd Gelt | Book a tax consultation with Gelt at https://joingelt.com/ramit. As a member of my community, you can skip the waitlist Shopify | Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at https://shopify.com/ramit Fabric by Gerber Life | Join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to protect their family. Apply today in just minutes at https://meetfabric.com/ramit Has your partner recently been obsessed with investing? Maybe not telling you what they're doing with your shared money? If so, I'd like to talk. Apply to be coached for free on this podcast at iwt.com/apply