Jonathan Swanson has built two rare successes: Thumbtack, the home-services marketplace, and Athena, the fast-growing platform that pairs ambitious people with world-class personal assistants. Today he runs a 4,000-person company, invests on the side, and raises four kids — all by designing his life around leverage. a16z General Partner, Erik Torenberg, sits down with Jonathan to unpack what that actually looks like. They discuss how elite assistant culture shaped his philosophy, why delegation is a skill most founders never truly learn, and how the combination of humans and AI is redefining personal productivity. Jonathan explains why he believes ambition grows with leverage, not the other way around, and breaks down how he delegates everything from scheduling to search processes to entire life systems. They also get into the future of work, the rise of machine-generated delegation, the expanding role of chiefs of staff, and how founders can design their time around the few things that matter most. It’s a conversation about work, life, and the systems that allow people to operate at scale. Timestamps: 0:00 – Introduction 0:44 – The power of delegation: from the White House to Thumbtack 02:13 – Human vs. AI assistants: the future of delegation 04:30 – Levels of delegation: from tasks to algorithms 06:31 – Principles of effective delegation 07:50 – Delegation & productivity hacks 09:46 – The future: machine-generated delegation 11:36 – Global talent & leveraging international teams 12:33 – Assistants and financial leverage 13:45 – Company culture across borders 15:18 – Assistants as accountability partners 16:52 – Coaching, feedback, and the human element 18:30 – Goal setting, time management, and prioritization 22:07 – Frameworks for founders: time, energy, and meetings 25:06 – The efficient path vs. the effect path 27:19 – Executive hiring: principles and pitfalls 29:19 – Reference check signals 32:09 – Principles for company transparency 35:55 – Cofounder relationships & company building 38:19 – Chief of staff vs. executive assistant 39:06 – Learning from high-performers: Lonsdale, Elon, Thiel, etc. 46:10 – Building your universe: org structures and talent networks 51:33 – Managing founder psychology & staying in the game 55:26 – Athena’s vision: human + AI assistants Resources: Follow Jonathan on X: https://twitter.com/swaaanson Follow our host: https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg Stay Updated: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and share with your friends! Find a16z on X: https://twitter.com/a16z Find a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16z Listen to the a16z Podcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5bC65RDvs3oxnLyqqvkUYX Listen to the a16z Podcast on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a16z-podcast/id842818711 Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures](http://a16z.com/disclosures.