Steven Rinella talks with author Nathalia Holt, Randall Williams, Phil Taylor, and Corinne Schneider.  Topics discussed: Nathalia's new book, "The Beast In The Clouds: The Roosevelt Brothers' Deadly Quest to Find the Mythical Giant Panda" is out!; get presale tickets for MeatEater's Christmas Tour 2025 starting 9/22; the epitome of the bear to find; Roosevelt as a good dad; an expedition to China by foot in an area of no roads; museums and zoos; finding prints in the snow; simultaneous shooting; the gentle giant; collection is paramount; and more. Steve on Instagram and Twitter MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube Check out the gear the MeatEater Crew uses in the field here: https://store.themeateater.com Follow us: Web: https://www.themeateater.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/meateater Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater Chapters:00:00 - Introduction and Christmas Tour Announcement 10:00 - Roosevelt Family Dynamics and Pressure 20:00 - Panda Discovery History - Western Debate 30:00 - Expedition Planning and Route Through Asia 45:00 - Yi People Territory and Cultural Encounters 55:00 - Panda Biology and Behavior Explained 60:00 - The First Panda Kill - Tracking and Shooting 70:00 - Immediate Regret and Conservation Awakening 80:00 - Trophy Hunting Rush Devastates Population 85:00 - Both Brothers Die in WWII Service