Grace Shao is the author of AI Proem. Shao joins Big Technology Podcast to discuss how Chinese AI labs have caught their American rivals despite operating with less advanced computing infrastructure. Tune in to hear how talent, specialization, open-source collaboration, and fierce competition helped models like Kimi K3 approach the U.S. frontier, and what that means for OpenAI, Anthropic, and the business of selling intelligence. We also cover model distillation, China’s compute constraints, the growing importance of AI products, why top researchers are returning to China, and the country’s emerging robotics advantage. Hit play for a clear-eyed look at whether the United States can preserve its AI lead. Chapters: 00:00 How China Caught Up in AI 01:32 How Moonshot Built Kimi K3 05:21 The Culture Inside China’s AI Labs 09:58 Specialization Under Compute Constraints 13:14 China’s Open-Source Advantage 17:25 Why U.S. Companies Are Embracing Open Source 21:12 Distillation and Allegations of IP Theft 26:25 How Open-Source AI Companies Make Money 29:28 China’s National AI Strategy 34:09 Can Closed AI Labs Defend Their Business? 39:04 Why AI Products Matter More Than Models 44:29 China’s Compute Problem 48:42 Why Top AI Researchers Return to China 52:23 China’s Robotics Advantage --- Enjoying Big Technology Podcast? Please rate us five stars ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ in your podcast app of choice. Watch the full documentary here: ⁠https://www.gravitee.io/ai-agent-documentary⁠ Want a discount for Big Technology on Substack + Discord? Here’s 25% off for the first year: ⁠https://www.bigtechnology.com/subscribe?coupon=0843016b⁠