Restaurants are great microcosms for macro-economic trends. They sit at the intersection of everything from consumer confidence to commodity costs to the labor market. According to the British Beer and Pub Association, approximately two pubs a day have closed in England during the first quarter of 2026. Could pubs tell us something about larger trends in the British economy? We talk to Oisin Rogers and Ashley Palmer-Watts, co-founders of The Devonshire, a famed London pub, to find out. Rogers, the publican, discusses the difference between a good and bad pub, why he hates the word 'gastropub,' and how the indoor smoking ban changed the meaning of pubs for the average Londoner. In a segment from our London live show, chef Palmer-Watts details the factors that lead to a perfect pint of Guinness, why higher ingredient costs does not always correlate to higher menu prices, and about making a Victorian-era meat fruit for Apple's Jony Ive. Chapters: 00:00:00 - Hello and Welcome to a Special Odd Lots Episode 00:01:40 - The Pub Landscape and Closing Crisis 00:03:37 - Introduction to Oisin Rogers 00:04:10 - Defining What Makes a Pub 00:05:14 - Pub Ownership Structure and History 00:07:00 - Rogers' Background and Career Path 00:07:42 - The Deventure Concept and Location Strategy 00:08:20 - The Smoking Ban's Economic Impact 00:10:48 - Evolution of Pub Culture and Gastro Pubs 00:16:01 - Business Specifics: Location and Investment 00:19:09 - Regulatory Challenges 00:20:14 - Labor Market and Staffing 00:22:24 - Pricing Strategy and Supplier Relations 00:23:48 - The Science of Guinness 00:26:01 - Cultural Significance of Pint Pouring 00:28:15 - Sound Design and Atmosphere 00:29:31 - Diagnosing the Pub Closure Problem 00:31:27 - Young People and Drinking Trends 00:32:46 - Daily Operations and Management 00:36:36 - Business Economics and Inflation Management 00:39:01 - Financial Performance 00:40:02 - Transition to Chef Ashley Palmer Watts-Interview 00:40:10 - The Science of Perfect Guinness (Chef's Perspective) 00:42:31 - Cultural Importance of Pint Quality 00:43:39 - Technical Optimization Process 00:45:24 - Menu Development and Economics 00:48:23 - Kitchen Operations and Scaling 00:50:24 - Cost Management and Pricing Strategy 00:52:15 - Wine Pricing Philosophy 00:53:12 - Supplier Relationships 00:55:23 - Crisis Management and The Bear Comparison 00:57:24 - Management Philosophy 00:58:37 - Inflation Response Strategy 01:00:03 - Gastro Pub Evolution 01:02:09 - Local vs. Tourist Customer Balance 01:03:18 - Reservation System and Walk-ins 01:04:15 - Creative Development Story: Apple for Johnny Ive 01:07:11 - Storytelling in Menu Design Watch Bloomberg Vodcasts: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLe4PRejZgr0MS0Tqk_zQl1LVVTdWuH2Di Watch more Odd Lots episodes: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLe4PRejZgr0OJbRzA6nWybYiThLJd_ouz Bloomberg's Joe Weisenthal and Tracy Alloway analyze the weird patterns, the complex issues and the newest market crazes. Join the conversation every Monday and Thursday for interviews with the most interesting minds in finance, economics and markets. Join the conversation: discord.gg/oddlots Subscribe to Bloomberg Podcasts: https://bit.ly/BloombergPodcasts Check out more Odd Lots: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLe4PRejZgr0MuA6M0zkZyy-99-qc87wKV Get the Odd Lots newsletter: https://www.bloomberg.com/account/newsletters/oddlots And for all things Odd Lots, visit https://www.bloomberg.com/oddlots #Investing #Markets #Finance #Bloomberg #Podcast #OddLots Visit us: https://www.bloomberg.com/podcasts For coverage on news, markets and more: http://www.bloomberg.com/video Visit our other YouTube channels: Bloomberg Television: https://www.youtube.com/@markets Bloomberg Originals: https://www.youtube.com/bloomberg