Joining us on the Rational Reminder today is one of the pioneers in the space of evidence-based investing, and someone who has been a massive inspiration to us, Mark Hebner! His website, Index Fund Advisors, was one of the first to start explaining the ideas of an evidence-based approach and the power of indexing, way back in the 1990s. We get to hear from Mark about his transition from misled active investor to his discovery of indexing and how this led to him founding Index Fund Advisors. One of Mark's mantras is to replace speculation with education, an idea he has held dear since his first forays into passive strategies and a message he delivers to his new clients repeatedly. Mark also tells us about the niche he filled with his business, visually presenting the evidence that was being ignored, in a way that was both easy to understanding and also convincing for investors. Our conversation covers the troubled waters of DIY investing, why Mark believes that an advisor is a necessary part of a good approach, as well as the parts of wealth management that are not actual investing. Mark unpacks his definition of risk and how best to think about it before we get into the topic of taxation. So for all this valuable information from a true authority, be sure to listen in with us and hear what Mark has to say! Key Points From This Episode: 0:00 Introduction; The events that led up to Mark founding Index Fund Advisors. 11:41 Mark’s 12 step process for getting out of active investing and the importance of the first one; Advice for avoiding the allure of active management – the idea of the Ulysses Pact. 18:34 Thoughts on large-cap growth stocks and the lessons we learn from history. 22:37 You cannot cheat risk; rules that have remained the same since 1720. 27:55 The folly of market timing and Mark’s approach for explaining this. 33:10 Understanding tax and how it should impact and propel passive strategies; The best way to think about risk – the uncertainty of your expected returns. 39:02 Important lessons that Mark has learned while educating clients over the years. 43:28 Aspects of wealth management apart from investing; saving, withdrawal rates, spending, and more. 47:08 The indispensability of an advisors – why DIY investing is not the way to go. 51:04 Mark’s personal definition of success: Freedom of choice and the opportunity to help; The public company that Mark had and exited before he got into investing. Books From Today’s Episode: Index Funds: The 12-Step Recovery Program for Active Investors — https://amzn.to/33xWlQG A Random Walk Down Wall Street — https://www.amazon.com/Random-Walk-Down-Wall-Street/dp/0393330338 Little Book of Common Sense Investing — https://www.amazon.com/Little-Book-Common-Sense-Investing-ebook/dp/B075Z6HSCJ Links From Today’s Episode: Rational Reminder on iTunes — https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-rational-reminder-podcast/id1426530582 Rational Reminder Website - https://rationalreminder.ca/podcast/116 Mark Hebner on Twitter— https://twitter.com/mark_hebner?lang=en Index Fund Advisors — https://www.ifa.com/The Story Behind Index Fund Advisors - https://www.evidenceinvestor.com/the-story-behind-index-fund-advisors/