Steven Rinella talks with Karl Malcolm of the Ruffed Grouse and American Woodcock Society and Brody Henderson. Topics discussed: Forest health issues; less and less access to good ruffed grouse and woodcock hunting; the story of population decline due to habitat; scaling up conservation work into outcomes; financial woes; technology and glowing woodcock; definitions of birders; and more.          Connect with Steve and The MeatEater Podcast Network Steve on Instagram and Twitter MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube Connect with Steve and The MeatEater Podcast Network: https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork Steve on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella/?hl=en Check out the gear the MeatEater Crew uses in the field here: https://store.themeateater.com Follow us: Web: https://www.themeateater.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/meateater Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater Chapters: 00:00 – Introduction: Carl Malcolm, Ruffed Grouse Society 06:52 – Forest Health Is the Real Story Behind Grouse Decline 17:59 – Pre-Settlement Forests and the Five Lost Disturbance Drivers 27:24 – The Problem With the Word "Logging" 37:28 – Scaling Conservation: Can Habitat Work Pay for Itself? 55:34 – Conservation Funding Crisis and Declining Hunter Participation 01:07:30 – Hunting, Birders, and What It Means to Actually Care About the Land 01:22:39 – Woodcock: The Bizarre Migratory Outlier 01:35:37 – Grouse Reintroduction, Predators, and What Actually Moves the Needle 01:53:38 – Northern Strongholds, Snowpack, and Tribal Fire Management 02:07:43 – Conservation Coalitions, Leopold Foundation, and How to Get Involved