Eoghan McCabe is the founder and CEO of Intercom, a customer service platform that has successfully pivoted to become an AI-first company with its agent product, Fin. After stepping away from the CEO role in 2020 due to health issues, Eoghan returned to find the company’s growth had stalled. Just one month after his return, ChatGPT launched, and within six weeks, Intercom had a working prototype of what would become Fin. In this conversation, Eoghan shares the brutal reality of transforming a late-stage SaaS business valued at multiple billions into an AI-first company that’s now growing faster than most public software companies. *We discuss:* 1. Why Eoghan believes most late-stage companies won’t survive the AI transition 2. The “founder mode” transformation that required firing 40% of staff and resulted in 98% employee satisfaction 3. Why having “nothing to lose” is the ultimate advantage in AI transformation (and why comfortable companies will fail) 4. How Intercom transformed from a plateauing SaaS business to an AI-first company growing at 300%+ 5. How Intercom’s pricing evolved from “the most hated in SaaS” to a model that charges just $0.99 per resolved ticket 6. The cultural transformation required to compete with AI-native startups 7. How 12 years of therapy and a period of “ego death” shaped Eoghan’s leadership approach *Transcript:* https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-intercom-rose-from-the-ashes-eoghan-mccabe *My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers):* https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/170710700/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation *Brought to you by:* Great Question—Empower everyone to run great research: https://www.greatquestion.com/lenny WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs: https://workos.com/lenny DX—The developer intelligence platform designed by leading researchers: https://getdx.com/lenny *Where to find Eoghan McCabe:* • X: https://x.com/eoghan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eoghanmccabe/ • Website: https://eoghanmccabe.com/ *Where to find Lenny:* • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ *In this episode, we cover:* (00:00) Introduction to Eoghan (05:00) The state of Intercom (09:53) The decision to pivot to AI (12:33) Why Eoghan is "anti-bot" in customer service (16:19) Pricing strategy evolution (19:26) Implementing the AI transformation (26:11) Cultural and organizational changes (31:18) Surviving a coup attempt (40:05) The future of AI and business (45:11) AI's impact on jobs (48:44) AI and human creativity (50:26) The importance of young AI talent (55:00) The cultural shift in AI adoption (58:00) Personal growth and leadership (01:04:34) Intercom’s success in producing product leaders (01:11:05) Intercom’s unique company culture (01:14:11) Lightning round and final thoughts *Referenced:* • Intercom: https://www.intercom.com/ • Fin: https://fin.ai/ • Des Traynor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/destraynor/ • The art and science of pricing | Madhavan Ramanujam (Monetizing Innovation, Simon-Kucher): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-art-and-science-of-pricing-madhavan • Pricing your AI product: Lessons from 400+ companies and 50 unicorns | Madhavan Ramanujam: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/pricing-and-scaling-your-ai-product-madhavan-ramanujam • Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach • Behind the founder: Marc Benioff: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-founder-marc-benioff • Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropic-co-founder-benjamin-mann • Fergal Reid on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fergalreid/ • How Perplexity builds product: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-perplexity-builds-product • Yosi Amram’s website: https://yamram.com/ • (Nathaniel Russell) Ego Death Now: https://heythereprojects.shop/products/copy-of-nathaniel-russell-space-is-a-place • Daniel Kahneman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Kahneman • Palantir: https://www.palantir.com/ • Stripe: https://stripe.com/ • Revolut: https://www.revolut.com/en-US/ • Paul Adams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pauladams • What AI means for your product strategy | Paul Adams (CPO of Intercom): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/what-ai-means-for-your-product-strategy ...References continued at: ⁠https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-intercom-rose-from-the-ashes-eoghan-mccabe⁠ _Production and marketing by https://penname.co/._ _For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com._ Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.