Jonathan V. Last, editor of The Bulwark, stops by the show to talk to Lovett about his "Grand Unified Theory of Trumpism" — that Trump's opponent "will always choose surrender over discomfort." Together, they try to make sense of America's rotting political culture, breaking down when and where it all went wrong, and debate what it'll take for the nation to heal from this moment, be it a reckoning of virtue, kindness, or democratic will. Jonathan also walks Lovett through the echoes of Goebbels recently displayed by Secretary Marco Rubio and Stephen Miller and why he believes the desire for a figure like Trump may have always been present within the Republican base. CHECK OUT OUR SPONSORS: SIMPLISAFE: https://simplisafe.com/CROOKED BETTERHELP: https://betterhelp.com/psa CHIME: https://chime.com/CROOKED Check out @KeepItPodcast here on YouTube! CHAPTERS 0:00 - Introduction 0:46 - Interview with Jonathan V. Last 14:29 - Ad Break 16:50 - Interview Continued 46:04 - Ad Break 48:10 - Interview Continued Join this channel to get access to perks like ad-free episodes and exclusive videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKRoXz3hHAu2XL_k3Ef4vJQ/join For a transcript of an episode of Pod Save America, please email transcripts@crooked.com. Subscribe to our channel! https://www.youtube.com/crookedmedia?sub_confirmation=1 Photos courtesy of AP Photo Archive Crooked believes that we need a better conversation about politics, culture, and the world around us—one that doesn’t just focus on what’s broken, but what we can do to fix it. At a time when it’s increasingly easy to feel cynical or hopeless, former Obama staffers Jon Favreau, Jon Lovett, and Tommy Vietor have created a place where people can have sane conversations that inform, entertain, and inspire action. In 2017 they started Crooked with Pod Save America—a no-bullshit conversation about politics. Since then, we continue to add shows, voices, and opportunities for activism, because it’s up to all of us to do our part to build a better world. That’s it. End of mission. Learn more about Crooked at http://www.crooked.com Follow the pod on Twitter https://twitter.com/podsaveamerica Follow Crooked on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/CrookedMedia/ Follow Crooked on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/crookedmedia/