What lessons on leadership does Angela Merkel have after 16 years served as Chancellor of Germany? Does she have any regrets from her tenure? What was it like being in East Germany when the Berlin wall fell? And what should Europe do to ensure the future security of Ukraine? Rory and Alastair are joined by ex-Chancellor of Germany, Angela Merkel, to discuss all this and more. TRIP Plus: Become a member of The Rest Is Politics Plus to support the podcast, receive our exclusive newsletter, enjoy ad-free listening to both TRIP and Leading, benefit from discount book prices on titles mentioned on the pod, join our Discord chatroom, and receive early access to live show tickets and Question Time episodes. Just head to therestispolitics.com to sign up, or start a free trial today on Apple Podcasts: apple.co/therestispolitics. Translator: Dorothee Kaltenbach Assistant Producer: India Dunkley Producer: Nicole Maslen Social Producer: Harry Balden Senior Producer: Dom Johnson Head of Content: Tom Whiter Exec Producers: Tony Pastor + Jack Davenport 00:00 Growing up under communism 03:53 The value of freedom 06:23 The fall of the Berlin Wall 08:21 The beginning of her political career 11:05 Joining the CDU 15:45 Was her rise effortless? 17:55 Turning against Hermut Kohl 19:35 Is she risk averse? 20:55 Freidrich Merz 22:20 the value of patience 23:40 The Franco-German relationship 25:00 How to prepare for govt 26:30 Pressure 28:10 The biggest decisions she had to make 29:20 Brexit 32:22 What happened to the foreign policy ambitions of the EU 37:03 What is Putin’s plan? 39:40 Can democracy come to Russia 42:50 The rise of AfD and the issue of migration 45:15 China 47:10 Trump 50:20 What is it like to be chancellor? 52:00 Rory and Alastair’s take on Merkel