Atoms, things, agents, ... observers. What even defines an "observer" and which properties must all observers share? How do objects persist in our universe given that their material composition changes over time? What does it mean for a thing to be a thing? And do things supervene on our lower-level physical reality? What does it mean for a thing to have agency? What's the difference between a complex dynamical system with and without agency? Could a rock or an AI catflap have agency? Can the universe be factorised into distinct agents, or is agency diffused? Have you ever pondered about these deep questions about reality? Please support us https://www.patreon.com/mlst (and watch bonus post-interview with Friston) https://discord.gg/aNPkGUQtc5 https://twitter.com/MLStreetTalk THE HARD PROBLEM OF OBSERVERS This is the epic special edition show you have been waiting for! With two of the most brilliant scientists alive today. Prof. Friston and Dr. Wolfram have spent their entire careers, some 40+ years each thinking long and hard about these very questions and have developed significant frameworks of reference on their respective journeys (the Wolfram Physics project and the Free Energy principle). Panel: MIT Ph.D Keith Duggar Production: Dr. Tim Scarfe Pod version: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/machinelearningstreettalk/episodes/THE-HARD-PROBLEM-OF-OBSERVERS---WOLFRAM--FRISTON-SPECIAL-EDITION-e2b7ib5 Refs: TED Talk with Stephen: https://www.ted.com/talks/stephen_wolfram_how_to_think_computationally_about_ai_the_universe_and_everything https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2023/10/how-to-think-computationally-about-ai-the-universe-and-everything/ TOC 00:00:00 - Intro 00:10:45 - Show kickoff 00:13:23 - Wolfram gets to grips with FEP 00:37:53 - How much control does an agent/observer have 00:45:37 - Observer persistence, what universe seems like to us 00:51:16 - Black holes 00:55:52 - Inside vs outside 01:03:05 - Moving away from the predictable path 01:06:11 - What can observers do 01:17:35 - Self modelling gives agency 01:22:11 - How do you know a thing has agency? 01:33:33 - Deep link between dynamics, ruliad and AI 01:36:37 - Does agency entail free will? Defining Agency 01:43:42 - Where do I probe for agency? 01:49:58 - Why is the universe the way we see it? 01:53:35 - Alien intelligence 01:54:25 - The hard problem of Observers 01:57:05 - Summary thoughts from Wolfram 02:00:20 - Factorisability of FEP 02:07:50 - Patreon interview teaser