Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/seanmcarroll Blog post with audio player, show notes, and transcript: https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2026/03/09/346-erica-cartmill-on-how-human-and-animal-minds-think-and-play/ Intelligence is a many splendored thing, especially when it comes to comparisons between species. Chimpanzees are better than humans at some numerical tasks, but less good at understanding what numbers actually mean. One window on the ways that species differ is how they play amongst themselves. I talk with anthropologist and cognitive scientist Erica Cartmill about modes of play and other social behaviors among various species, and what they reveal about the ways we all think. Upgrade your denim game with Rag & Bone! Get 20% off sitewide with code MINDSCAPE at www.rag-bone.com. #ragandbonepod Get twenty percent off your first purchase at Fast Growing Trees when using the code MINDSCAPE at checkout. Henson Shaving is offering 100 blades free with the purchase of a razor — just head to hensonshaving.com/MINDSCAPE and or use code MINDSCAPE at checkout. erica cartmill Erica Cartmill received her Ph.D. in psychology and neuroscience from the University of St. Andrews. She is Professor of Cognitive Science, Anthropology, Animal Behavior, Psychology, and Informatics at Indiana University, Bloomington and an External Professor at the Santa Fe Institute. She is the co-chair of the EVOLANG conferences and the co-director of the Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute. She is co-director of the Possible Minds lab at IU, and also manages the Observing Animals project, which asks for public input on how animals interact with each other. Mindscape Podcast playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrxfgDEc2NxY_fRExpDXr87tzRbPCaA5x Sean Carroll channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/seancarroll #podcast #ideas #science #philosophy #culture