The real hardship of our time isn’t only the challenges we face, it’s that we rarely slow down enough to fully experience and process them. Jay is joined by bestselling author and journalist Michael Pollan for a deeply thoughtful exploration of consciousness, attention, and what it truly means to be present. Known for reshaping how we think about food, nature, and the human mind, Michael shares why his work always begins with curiosity rather than certainty. Together, they unpack how perception shapes reality and why the most important questions in life aren’t meant to be solved quickly, but held with patience. Jay and Michael dive into how modern life pulls us away from awareness, leaving many of us distracted, overstimulated, and disconnected from ourselves. Drawing from research on meditation, neuroscience, and psychedelic therapy, Michael explains how rigid thought patterns, rumination, and ego-driven narratives can keep us stuck. They discuss how practices that quiet the mind don’t erase our identity, but soften it, creating space for clarity, creativity, and deeper connection with the world around us. In this interview, you'll learn: How to Stop Living on Autopilot How to Train Your Attention in a Distracted World How to Use Curiosity Instead of Certainty How to Break Free from Mental Rumination How to Quiet the Ego Without Losing Yourself How to Interrupt Stuck Thought Patterns Awareness isn’t something you have to earn or master, it’s something you already possess. Small moments of attention, pausing before reacting, listening more deeply, and learning to sit with your thoughts, can quietly reshape how you experience life. Michael Pollan’s A World Appears is a sweeping exploration of consciousness, what it is, who has it, and what it reveals about the essence of being human. Get your copy here: https://michaelpollan.com/books/a-world-appears/ With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty JAY’S DAILY WISDOM DELIVERED STRAIGHT TO YOUR INBOX Join 900,000+ readers discovering how small daily shifts create big life change with my free newsletter. Subscribe here. Check out our Apple subscription to unlock bonus content of On Purpose! https://lnk.to/JayShettyPodcast What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 00:32 Why Great Thinkers Start With Questions 02:32 Is There Such a Thing as a Bad Question? 05:53 What is Consciousness? 07:55 Why Consciousness Matters in Daily Life 12:54 What Happens When You Put Your Phone Down 14:05 Building a Daily Meditation Practice 16:05 When Consciousness Transcends the Self 19:47 Is Everything Conscious? 25:46 What’s the Difference between the Mind and Consciousness? 31:16 Meditation and Psychedelics: The Overlap 33:36 Using Psychedelics With Intention 35:30 Is the Brain Creating Reality? 41:09 Breaking OCD Thought Loops 44:24 The Real Risks of Psychedelics 49:04 Why Psychedelics Can Help Break Addiction 51:23 How Altered States Change Our Fear of Death 53:54 Do Near-Death Experiences Change Science? 57:21 Redefining Consciousness in the AI Age 01:02:41 What Our Need for Constant Validation Says About Society 01:05:06 What Makes Humans Different From Machines 01:10:38 Why Asking Better Questions Matters 01:12:17 Michael on Final Five Episode Resources: Website | https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/ Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/jefferson_fisher/ YouTube | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXjnpu6lK0HoUyOMh2ZBwhQ TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@justaskjefferson Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/justaskjefferson/ X | https://x.com/jefferson_fishr LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffersonfisher/ https://www.instagram.com/jayshetty https://www.facebook.com/jayshetty/ https://x.com/jayshetty https://www.linkedin.com/in/shettyjay/ https://www.youtube.com/@JayShettyPodcast http://jayshetty.me