We flew to Taiwan to interview TSMC Founder Morris Chang in a rare English interview. In fact, the last long-form video interview we could find was 17 years ago at the Computer History Museum… conducted by the one-and-only Jensen Huang! This episode came about after asking ourselves a version of the Jeff Bezos “regret minimization” question: what conversations would we *most* regret not having if the chance passed Acquired by? Dr. Chang was number one on our list, and thanks to a little help from Jensen himself, we’re so happy to make it happen. Dr. Chang shares the stories of a few crucial moments from TSMC’s history which have only been written about in his (currently Chinese-only) memoirs, including how TSMC won Apple’s iPhone and Mac chip business and a 2009 discrepancy with NVIDIA that almost jeopardized their relationship, and the lessons he took from them. We can’t think of a better way to kick off 2025. Please enjoy! Sponsors: Many thanks to our fantastic Spring ‘25 Season partners: J.P. Morgan Payments https://bit.ly/acquiredJPMPmorrisyt ServiceNow https://bit.ly/acquiredsn Fundrise https://bit.ly/acquiredfundrise25 Links: Worldly Partners’ Multi-Decade TSMC Study https://worldlypartners.com/businesshistory Karina Bao's writing https://karinabao.substack.com/ Carve Outs: AAA https://www.aaa.com Defunctland https://www.youtube.com/defunctland Everything Everywhere all at Once https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6710474/ Asianometry https://www.youtube.com/asianometry More Acquired: Get email updates with hints on next episode and follow-ups from recent episodes https://www.acquired.fm/email Join the Slack http://acquired.fm/slack Subscribe to ACQ2 https://pod.link/acquiredlp Check out the latest swag in the ACQ Merch Store! https://www.acquired.fm/store 0:00 - Intro 3:22 - TSMC and Nvidia's relationship 9:50 - The 40nm node development problem in 2009 20:55 - The TSMC Laid Off Employee Protest 26:16 - TSMC's Incredible Core Business vs. Expansions 29:08 - Resolving the 2009 NVIDIA dispute 35:59 - TSMC's commitment to 28nm 43:04 - Going all-in on the 28nm node 52:05 - Meeting Apple and Jeff Williams 1:23:09 - Goldman Sachs 1:34:57 - ServiceNow 1:36:01 - Intel's and Apple 1:46:45 - Apple’s and the 20nm node 1:47:58 - Pricing 1:50:24 - Apple and trade-offs 1:55:22 - The IBM-Qualcomm story 2:02:18 - The Learning Curve 2:10:45 - The Flywheel of Returns 2:14:18 - TSMC’s Unexpected(?) Success 2:15:57 - The early days of TSMC 2:21:10 - Ben and David's Reflections 2:27:43 - Taiwanese Science Park 2:47:08 - Carve Outs Notes: This episode contains a paid endorsement for Fundrise. All investments can lead to loss. Acquired hosts and guests may hold assets discussed in this episode. This podcast is not investment advice, and is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. You should do your own research and make your own independent decisions when considering any financial transactions.